Simon Mactavish

[migovie]

i would appreciate any/all comments on the life of Simon Mactavish. I have become quite concerned by some of the "facts " listed regarding the life of Simon Mactavish.
I noted with interest an article displayed on the clan Mactavish website entitled ..." the true known truths ".... this particular article stated clearly that the author felt Simon Mactavish had recieved his titles through "pedigree manipulation" and "a long purse"..and perhaps that he "bribed lord lyons office"....and many other derogatory comments regarding this great man.
I took exception to this for many reasons but the foremost being .. SIMON MACTAVISH IS THE MOST FAMOUS AND SUCCESSFUL MACTAVISH TO EVER LIVE TO DATE.......why then does the Mactavish website slam him so much ???? Should not he be revered as our clans greatest achievement ????
I sent the article " true known truths " to Lord Lyons Office for their comment regarding the suggestion that titles that confirmed ancestory could be bought or Lord lyons office accepted a bribe or was somehow manipulated etc....as stated in this article
their reply was clear and concise dated 10th April 2003......
all the suggestions that simon bribed or "purchased" titles were false and the author of the article or people displaying this article "the true known truths " needed to be very careful.....and i quote...... from Lord lyons reply 10th april 2003..( the person mentioned "john hooke campbell" is the person who made the decision on the applications in 1793 and 1794 .... "lord Lyon...John Hooke Campbell" )..
lyons office wrote,......

"I am sure John Hooke Campbell of Bangeston would be well versed in Campbell history, being a descendant of the Campbells of Cawdor, and would have been the first to object if Arms had been granted that were not appropriate.
I can confirm that Amoral Bearings are on record in the public register of all arms and bearings in Scotland for Lachlan Mactavish of Dunardry and Simon Mactavish of Gartbeg. Lachlan mactavish is not described as Mactavish of Mactavish and Dunardry, and no mention is made theirin of him being a chief. Indeed, until relatively recently, I do not think the Mactavishes were regarded as a distinct clan with their own head.
The very name Mactavish means son of Tavish, and it is, i am quite sure for that reason that in 1793 the Campbell quarter was given to show the then accepted descent of Mactavish of Dunardry from the greater clan Campbell. Indeed the most recent work on the history of clan Campbell continues to support the theory that the most likely candidate for the ancestor of the Mactavishes is the person I mention above (Taius Coir...illegitmate son of Colin Maol Math, chief of clan Campbell). No evidence has been forthcoming in recent times to give any other possible ancestory"......

It would appear clearly obvious that Lord Lyons Office still accept the grounds of both Lachlan and Simons application for arms showing the Mactavish ties to clan Campbell as being historically correct....my immediate feeling is if my forefathers lived and died believing this matter to be true then I would be showing extreme disrespect to them by turning my back on their beliefs. I respect them enough to respect their beliefs ....they were men of integrity and passion and the least I can do to continue these Mactavish traits is to continue their passion.....they are my blood ....they are my passion......there is no possible way I could disrespect them by turning my back on what they believed to be true. I have crests and legend that confirm a close Campbell connection. I would require some extremely convincing evidence to alter my opinion , and even then I would continue to acknowledge and respect my ancestors beliefs.

Lets all now look at the great life and success of Simon Mactavish of Garthbeg with its due pride....HE IS A FAMOUS AND SUCCESSFUL MACTAVISH.......(still unsurpassed)
It may be simpler than it all seems as we know Lachlan Mctavish arms grant in 1793 makes no mention of him being a chief....so perhaps this recent new Mactavish arms grant is simply just that......a new grant that obviously completely divorces itself from all its ancestors long held beliefs and legends....but this would be a VERY unScottish thing to do as everyone knows Scotland has lived and breathed legend and belief since its birth. Would not this recent separation from Lachlan and Simons beliefs now show separation from everything these 2 men believed in?

[cathy]

The traditional view of Simon McTavish is that of a arrogant despot, very much disliked by many of the wintering partners of the Northwest Company. However, there is much evidence to the contrary. In the Edgar papers of the Detroit Library, leeters of Simon's early life have been discovered where Simon appears to be a young man with a delightful sense of humour, and very much in love with the ladies. "good wine, good Oysters, and pretty girls". In his will he left legacies to all of his relatives, many of whom he may have never met, and in case he forgot anyone, he left 1,000 pounds for "assisting such of my pooir relations in Scotland, as I have have neglected to provide for". He also left money to the children of a man he had bested in a lawsuit, "I give and bequesth to the surviving children of William Kay, later of Montreal, aforesaid, merchant, deceased, the sum of One thousand pounds current money aforesaid, as I am doubtful whether I was justly entitled to the amount of the judgement rended in my favor in the court of Appeals"

When Lachlan McTavish, Chief of Clan Tavish died, Simon wrote to Lachlan's lawyer, James Ferrier and told him, that he would purchase the family property (Dunardry) and hold it that perhaps in the future one of the sons of Lachlan might be in a situation to redeem it. He also asked to "acquaint the Widow that I will most cheerfully take charge of the second son, whenever he is qualified to come into a Compting House and wish a proper attention may be paid to his Education" This was John George McTavish who eventually would become a partner in the Northwest Company.

So actually Simon was a kindly sentimentalist. However, he died in Montreal in 1804 without ever seeing his estate in Scotland.

[migovie]

while researching simon mact life i noted some comments by masson in his research on simon and that of dr george bryce who also made the assumption that simon was not respected by his peers and colleagues as both men say simon was disrespectfully reffered to as "the marquiss" and "le premier" >

both men assumed these titles inferred a "note of disrespect'. toward simon>>>
and i too accepetd this UNTIL i found the paperwok that showed simon mact also titled himself as "simon mactavish of dunardry"...and simons son william titled the same...
then i noted that the duke of argylle was also kniown as the "marquiss" of argylle....
then it became blantantly obvious that simons titles as the same were actually a mark of respect NOT the contrary....
the title of "marquiss" was given to scots who owned notable lands and men of authority and this usually asscociated with chiefs as was the custom...the chief was the land owner.

simon was titled a "simon mactavish of dunardry" and widely accepted as such...
so the record should be set straight again that this title attached to simon was 'assumed " as being derisive of disrespect by researchers who hadnt been made aware the simple fact that simon mactavish as landowner of dunardry and as subsequent chief of mactavish was EVERY way entitled to call HIMSELF these other titles...as was the duke of argylle...
to assume that "the marquiss" and "le premier" were disrespectfull labels to simon is to show NO respect for scottish custom ...
simon was a GOOD man and i have at my fingers over 300 pages of letters from simon and the family of lachlan and NOT ONE of these letters shows any slight to simon mactavish...
as a man
as a mactavish
or as a business leader...
compare that today to any billion dollar company leader or even the president of the u.s.a. and youll find FAR more negative press on ANYONE in history...simon was a hard man...a GOOD businessman... did not accept a poor work ethic from workers
and did NOT accept reckless behaviour from his workers...
DID not accept dishonest behaviour from his workers....
(WELL ISNT THAT THE BACKBONE OF ANY SUCCESFULL BUSINESMAN)
TO BE ANY LESS OF A MAN IN THESE TRAITS WOULD HAVE LEAD HIM TO FAIL IN BUSINESS...

[rhona]

I have a hunch that Simon helped support the University education of Lachlan's daughter Flora ,as well as looking out for his sons----- could this be the same Flora MacTavish who went on to devote her life to aiding the disadvantaged folk of Stratherrick,Simon's homeland?
Does anyone know where we might see a complete copy of Simon's will?

[cathy]

Rhona, I had never thought about that before. It makes great sense. Flora Mactavish appears from nowhere in Stratherrick! Interesting. A copy of his will can be found at the following link, go to digital collections, then the Book, Documents relating to the North West Company, start looking for the will at about page 135 or so. It is all there. Before this available digitally, I went to a collector and bought the book. As there were only about 600 copies printed the book cost me a fortune. The book gives a lot of insight into Simon!

Cathy

[rhona]

Cathy---youre a darling!
That is truly a fantastic site ,with a vast wealth of stuff ,revealing much about Simon's warmth of character and generous spirit.
Thanks once again.

[cathy]

Yes, I think Simon is seriously misunderstood. Much has been written that he was tyrannical in his business practises. However he left money to his extended family in Scotland, even leaving money to those that might need it "someday". Very generous with partners, preachers, etc. He took Lachlan's son, John George into the business with him and provided for the education of Lachlan's oldest son. Something that a lot of people refuse to admit happened.

So in business he was what he needed to be, but in his personal dealings he was a generous man.


Cathy

[Truth Seeker]

I can't see the LINK you are talking about! There's nothing in the message from Cathy that I can see ---
I would like to see Simon's will also, so can you give the link again?

Thanks,

T.S.

[cathy]

Thank you Migovie for finding this great article that was published on Simon McTavish in the Gazette, Montreal, Quebec!

You can find it here!
Cathy

http://www.garthbeg.com/mctavishghost.htm