Thomson Thompson

[migovie]

Does ANYONE at all have a documented family line that actually proves a mactavish changed name to
thom(p)son and continued with that name.?
I know of 3x instances only of such a mactavish name change .ONLY 3x in all my years of mactavish research.
Can anyone offer suggestion as to how these 3 families of mactavish managed to then father the
thom(pson) name from that date. ? How did a mactavish clan of such small numbers produce such an impact on thom(p)son whose numbers are 10x the mactavish?

Thom(p)son means "son of thom"..

Thamhais could never have confused with thom by ANY scotsman. Unless Mactavish were retarded , uneducated and held no understanding of anything scottish.

So to inisist the mactavish changed name in great numbers actually suggests our clan was stupid.

I DO have proof that Edward Dugald mactavish main reason for this thompson inclusion in his sept list was financial .

So come on Mactavish or Thom(p)son . Lets see the family proof that you started out as mactavish and then changed name . It will be documented. Some lucky Mactavish may even have the letter their ancestor may have written to the mactavish chief asking permission to change name to that of another chief and clan .

[REALMACTAVISH]

TAVISH MEANS TWIN IN GAELIC.FACT. THE GAELIC FOR THOMAS IS TIOMAS. PEOPLE HAVE NEVER ANGLOCISED THEIR NAME FROM MACTAVISH TO THOMSON.........WHY TAKE THE PRIDE FROM A NAME ANYWAY? THE ARGYLL-ONLY- THOMPSONS ARE/WERE AASEPT OF CLAN MACTAVISH. NO NAME CHANGE. A SEPT. AND ONLY THOSE FROM ARGYLL. THE GRAVEYARD NORTH OF TARBERT HAS DOZENS OF THOMPSON GRAVES -IN WHAT WAS MACTAVISH LAND. THE GRAVES GO BACK TO 1700.
I AGREEWITH MIGS THAT DODGY SAW A COFFERS SWELLER IN THAT FARCE OF AN IDEA. BUT= THE ARGYLLSHIRE ONES ARE A SEPT. ANOTHER GIVAWAY IS THE TELEPHONE DIRECTORY.....THERE ARE 4 PAGES OF THOMPSONS IN MID ARGYLL AND KNAPDALE.
YOU'LL GET NO TAKERS WITH DOCS MIGSY. OH AND OF COURSE PLASTIC PATS GENEAOLOGY IS MADE UP.

[migovie]

PERFECTLY explained my friend .
The argylle Thompsons then became a "feudal" sept of clan mactavish due to being tenants of mactavish lands. This means the ONLY thompsons that can be rightly attached to mactavish as a sept are those who have proof of descendancy from those thompsons living on mactavish lands.
In fact if you go to "true mactavish .com " youll see copy of an email from edward dugald mactavishs "hired gun" pat adams....
this lady states she is concerned with edward dugald mactavishs financial swindles,
advances to younger woman within his own clan
AND that she knows hes about to start a recruitment swindle to earn more dollars for himself as well.
Pat adams shows she has no faith in her chief,
she distrusts her chief,
she thinks her chief is blatantly stealing funds from his clan ,
she states she feels her chief is in breach of tax rules , ...
She warms her chief to watch out ...for tax fraud..
I can say without doubt in this case she was more than correct .
i can state that the ONLY thompsons that can be regarded as being sept of mactavish are those who descend from the family of thompson that lived on ancient mactavish lands in argylle.
I can say that edward dugald mactavish fabricated this thompson myth to earn more funds for himself.

Shall we also now release the copy of edward dugald mactavishs email that states he considers patrick thomson (his OWN senachie) to be nothing more than a power hungry fool that edward dugald had no time for and spent much time entertaining patricks ego to "be somebody" as a source of amusement to chief dugald...he had not time for patrick...he distrusted him...in fact the email reads as if chief edward dugald hated patrick thomson ????....

Is it time to now release the signed witness statement from edward dugalds ex friend that states edward dugald demanded his own son NEVER be chief and details edward dugalds reasons for this demand ?


LOOK at the current mactavish clan membership..hmmmmmmmmmmm

If you remove the thompson name from that list you would have a paid membership to clan mactavish of persons of mactavish name of nearly ZERO.

Are there actually ANY persons of the name Mactavish actually in clan mactavish at the moment ?

[REALMACTAVISH]

WELL I THINK THE WEE SHITES WIFE IS CALLED MACTAVISH, HIS 2 KIDS ARE PROBABLY SOMEONE ELSES. LESLIE LOOKS LIKE SHES PUT IT AROUND A BIT.SO WE HAVE A WEE RUNT CLAIMING TO REPRESENT A CLAN THAT HAS NO MEMBERS IN HIS SOCIETY. I KNOW THEY HAVE A LOT OF GOLDSTEINS DONLEYS SINGH......NO MACTAVISH.

[Bonnie]

In the MacTavish of Dunardry by E. F. Bradford ----- In the following letter, John MacTavish, who changed his name to John Thomson, wrote to his father, Dugald MacTavish of Dunardry, from Kingston on 16 July 1756..........

This is the only one I know of!

Bonnie

[migovie]

WELL....thats a VERY interesting fact . Clan Mactavish today state that the mactavish family of dunardry retained the name of mactavishat all times . This letter proves that fact to be wrong and we can now say that one of the dunardry mactavish family adopted the name thomson .

We also have some members of the dunardry mactavish who moved to breadalbane and changed their family name to campbell. This, again is at direct odds to mactavish clan website that states at no stage in history did mactavish EVER make attempt to use the campbell name. ..WRONG...

[Bonnie]

Well - you expected them to tell the truth? About ANYTHING??? :o

[REALMACTAVISH]

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE THOMPSONS AND THOMSONS ARE DISTANCING THEMSELVES FROM THE MACTAVISH THEME PARK. VERY RESPECTFUL PEOPLE OF THAT NAME HAVE SEEN THROUGH THE PLAYPARKS SCAMS AND FUDGING AND HAVE ESTABLISHED THEIR TRUE SCOTTISH LINKS TO THE ROXBURGH BORDER AREA. THERE IS NOW A CLANTHOMPSON AND GOD SPEED TO THEM. THE GRAVY TRAIN HAS LEFT THE STATION.

[nessie]

O M G !!---I'm scared to ask but---what exactly is a MacTavish themepark????????

[REALMACTAVISH]

The Mactavish Themepark? Its A Fantasy World Where Wannabes Play At Being Scottish And Part Of A Clan; It Doesnt Matter What Your Name Is- Rumplestiltskin/donley/mustapha Tahtan/ Whatever, You Pays Your Dues And Wallah! Your A Clan Member! In Their Woderful Pretend World There Are Several Fantasy Characters Who Believe In Fairy Dust And Wishing Wells, The Truth Has No Place In 'macknavish Land'.
They Can Keep The Park Open As Long As People Pay Them Dues/entrance Fees. But Guess What? Real Scots Descendants Are Leaving The Theme Park To Follow The History Trail.

[migovie]

just to clarify the supporting facts behind this discussion
and the facts that support the statement that ONLY a handfull of
thom(p)son persons could ever be considered a sept of mactavish.

!...edward dugald mactavishs own written training doc instructs his collegues whilst at games etc on how best to attract pos mactavish clan members , Edward dugald told his team of "salesmen in writing , that they were to welcome everyone and anyone and to take time to sit them down , offer them a smile and drinks or a snack ...whatever name they were they were at all time to be made to feel a part of the mactavish name. He then states that it be essential that all contact details are recorded so that the person could be traced and tracked in order to be invoiced . He stated it was imperative that people paid on the spot else they may cool to the idea. The actual doc regarding detail of swindling funds from prospective members is many many many pages .

2...pat adams emails edward dugald mactavish and details her distrust of him as a man and as a chief. She details her distaste at his morals towards younger woman within his own clan (family ) and she details precise distrust of his financial circs...and details her disbelief of his spending of funds from clan accounts on his own personal expenses. She lists detail of the fact he says he cannot live on his pension yet uses clan funds for travel, power bills and food without any approval from other clan members. She warns him she feels he is in breach of usa tax laws. She then states she is aware his ethics regarding sept lists etc are questionable .

3...any person with any ounce of intelligence must concede that thom(p)son inclusion as a sept of mactavish cannot EVER be inclusive without question...only a handful of thom(p)son could ever be accepted as attached as a mactavish sept..

4...thom(p)son are a group and clan with links back to the early days of scotland . For any mactavish to change name to that of the thompson clan actually proves in fact that those mactavish were a sept of the thompson clan NOT the other way around....
again i confirm that the thom(p)son name actually stems back to the early murky days of the origins of scotland clan life...for mactavish to adopt that name well.............all i can suggest is the particular family members of mactavish (ONLY a handful) that changed name must have had good reason to disguise their identity...by this i mean it was a name change and a name change actually adopted more often NOT on scots soil...it could actually be argued that those few mactavish he fled to another country and elected to adopt another name did so because they had something to hide or wished to hide or begin a new life Such a name change shows a diliberate seperation from clan tavish ....

5..there are a few docs that incorrectly suggest that mactavish were known as thom(p)son in argylle ...these docs were written by researchers who actually simply got it wrong.Yes there are a handful of cases...these half dozen examples DO NOT under any stretch of the imagination prove any name change of any significant numbers at all...
Edward dugald mactavish decided to create the myth that after culloden mactavish of argylle changed name to thomson . This suggestion is rediculous ...it is lies...based on NOTHING but 2 whims of edward dugald mactavish....
A...he liked the idea of being attached to culloden even tho he knew dunardry never fought
B...he really needed the thompson funds in his clan membership as he knew that in argylle there were today almost no mactavish yet the phone book showed pages and pages of thompson ...he wanted THEIR cash....more importantly he NEEDED their cash to pay for his power and phone and television and food and the very outgoings on his caravan he lived in.He knew that 99% of thom(p)son name had their own family and clan and were never at any stage a sept of mactavish ...and ESP all those who were actually english thompsons anyway and so NOTHING to do with argylle yet alone mactavish.

I URGE ALL THOM(P)SON TO TAKE THE TIME AND EFFORT TO SEARCH THEIR FAMILY LINE...A FEW WILL HAVE A TRAIL THAT ENTWINES WITH MACTAVISH ...AND THAT IS WONDERFULL...AND BE PROUD

BUT THE REST OF YOU PLEASE DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP IN THIS MONEY HUNGRY THEFT OF YOUR HISTORY AND FAMILY....

SIMPLY ASK YOURSELF

1...DID MY FAMILY STEM FROM ARGYLLE ...YES/NO...?

2...DID MY FAMILY ORIGINALLY START OUT AS A MACTAVISH ....YES/NO.?

3...DID MY FAMILY FARM OR LEASE LANDS FROM DUNARDRY MACTAVISH ...YES/NO ?

4...IF YOUVE ANSWERED NO TO THE ABOVE QUESTIONS THEN PROUDLY STAND UP AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF AS A PERSON OF THE THOM(P)SON CLAN AND FAMILY...AS SUCH YOU OUTNUMBER MACTAVISH 50xFOLD...

#### AND STOP CONTRIBUTING FUNDS TO A MACTAVISH CLAN THAT SHOWS YOU NO ATTACHMENT OTHER THAN TO TAKE MONEY FROM YOUR HANDS....

CLAN THOM(P)SON IS RE FORMING ...WITH PRIDE AND TRUTH AND RESPECT FOR FAMILY AND ACESTORS BELIEFS ....

MY USER NAME IS MIGOVIE ...

BUT I AM A MACTAVISH .......I HAVE NO REASON FOR THIS AT ALL APART FROM ESTABLISHING THE TRUTH ..

[REALMACTAVISH]

I CAN QUALIFY THAT WHEN DODGY DUGALD CAME TO ARGYLL EARLY 90s HE WAS TOLD BY COLONEL ANGUS OF KILCHRIST HOUSE THAT A CLAN'S PEDIGREE WAS DETERMINED BY WHETHER OR NOT THEY FOUGHT AT CULLODEN. HE MADE IT HIS FANTASY TO CREATE THAT ILLUSION.

[migovie]

the term 'sept"

this is a word often used yet even less understood.
there are actually 2 distinct terms of sept..

1...a clan or family can be attached as a "sept" of another clan and this attachment can be traced back in blood to a shared or common ancestor or bloodline..thus the sept staus is confirmed by blood attachment and family/clan

2..the other common use of "sept" is more encompassing >
A clan more often was treated as a sept simply due to leasing lands and this lease was held under contract of "feu" ..
or a contract of feu could apply to portions of a chiefs lands that he sold off. this was his way of forever ensuring both he and his heirs would have a "safe" community to live and breed.,
this contract was agreed and obeyed under the ancient feudal system and demanded the original land owner was "KING" and ruler over all those who leased or purchased portions of his lands..
This placed countless clans and parts of clans as a "feudal sept" of another..This position was extremely common .

A feudal sept was essential and normal part of clan behaviour until the early/mid 1800s when it ceased entirely , but its true demise began post culloden.

This feudal sept status gave the chief who owned the lands a security that everyone leasing his lands and living in his "district" would obey him,
The contract of "feu" would demand those families leasing lands to assist the feudal lord or "chief" to run his own farms, to pay anual levies to him as a portion of whatever farming was conducted by the leasee or landowner , and most important to always be available to provide men for the chiefs army whenever needed..

Now this also gives explantion to the often asked question "which chief hedl more power or who was the greater chief" In ancient scotland this is simply answered.
The greater the lands, the greater the chief,
The more lands a chief owned meant by feu contract he held a greater army power .
That chiefs army would be mustered from every person living upon his lands and bound together by feudal contracts .
A chiefs early arms grants in ancient times often showed these powers and depicted the power in the arms.
Septs were indictaed in those arms and those arms gave that chief a visible "coat of arms" that also bound the families and clans together in times of war.
Land ownership was SO important in those days. It gave power and control and security. The more lands you owned , the greater army you had power over. the greater the army ,,,the safer your family would be against rivals.
Rivals were after your land . They needed the lands to gain more military power to surive, and thus the machine kept turning over.
This shows thie absolute importance of feu contracts . It was essential in ensuring an amry could be mustered from the community . It had nothing origianlly to do with extra income via levies...it simply meant POWER thru military protection

This last demand is crucial as it also aligns with the very early scots criteria for a man to be accepted as a chief. In ancient scotland a chief was a man who held the pwr of firstly owning lands and secondly to command or muster an army.All and EVERONE who was part of his feudal army muster role was also part of his feudal sept.

Now when we look at dunardry lands being held by feudal land tenure to the duke of argylle since at least 1500 ...we see that mactavish of dunardry have signed, declared and acted as a "feudal" sept of argylle since 1500.

Dunardry at some stage in early history was lost from mactavish hands and became thus attached as part of the greater campbells lands owned by argylle. He had no need for dunardry so the sold the dunardry lands back to mactavish yet demanded a contract of feu be signed for around 400 years .Papers prove this contract of dunardry feu to have been signed by mactavish chiefs from circa 1500 up until 1828

If you take the time to read the wording of the dunardry signed feu contracts with argylle you will see the confirmation that the dunardry chief had for centuries signed a feudal agreement to be part of the campbell army whenever needed, and to pay levies etc.

Every time a dunardry chief died a new contract of "feudal obediance" and pledge of loyalty to argylle was signed by the dunardry heir , to ensure all who lived at dunardry were pledging obediance to argylle . If they refused at any stage they would have lost the dunardry lands .

This same contract of feu was again signed thru the years of 1800 to 1812. This was signed again pledging feudal obediance and this feu agreement was actually signed on behalf of ALL mactavish by the then "head " or chief of mactavish. This feu contract actually compelled lachlans family and heirs to also obey the mactavish chief at the time who signed this contract on behalf of ALL mactavish

The person who was signing this document was simon mactavish of garthbeg , and in 1812 it was signed by his son and heir .

Both simon and son signed a document with the duke of argylle that compelled lachlans family to BOTH obey simon and son but obey argylle...

Simon Mactavish signed as chief of mactavish

Another interesting point to note is that in ALL correspondence between lachlan mactavish and simon mactavish 1793 and 1794 lachlan actually signs his letters to simon as
"your humble servant
lachlan mactavish "

Is that how a chief would sign ?

[migovie]

This feudal system was an amazing set of customs and rules that shows the absolute importance and value of scots respect and power thru land ownership in ancient times.

Today it could be compared to a person selling off a car , yet the condition of that sale had a contract that demanded the new owner drive it in the manner stated by the seller,
the new owner would be demanded to come back and help clean the sellers existing car and give a hand to repair whenever needed, and for eternity the new owner had to pay a levy per year. IF at any stage the new owner failed to meet the contract then the seller could take back the car and sell to a person who agreed again to obey the rules.

Such was feudal land tenure.

A chief may decide to sell of lands . But for eternity that chief still had the right to take those lands back , Every owner forever had to agree to abey the original chiefs contract of feu and obey that chief. Failure to do so at any stage meant pos of lands being returned to that chief.
This is why land held under feu were often only sold between clans who "got on" or had historic mutual agreements (or as good as that could be expected from those days in scots history anyway )

This is why dunardry lands changed hands from lachlan mactavish to campbell . then to another campbell then to simon mactavish of garthbeg then back to campbell again .
This is why mactavish chiefs signed contracts of obediance with duke argylle since at least 1500.

The dunardry contract of feu (and the clare constat signed 1812) held a specific demand that was quite an ancient custom. This demand contracted the mactavish chief to guarantee to continue payment of tacks held by his dunardry clansman in times of hardship and pos rental arrears by any of those mactavish clanmsen.

Thus simon mactavish and his son and heir ,as lairds of dunardry and regarded as chief of dunardry by argylle were bound by signed contract to keep payments to argylle of all levies and taxes on dunardry farms and all those subleased farms on dunardry held by mactavish clanmsen also.
This demand stated that in case of default of any tack leases or failure in any mactavish farm or a farm being vacant due to death and no apparant heir ..then simon mactavish agreed to continue to pay for a period of up to 12 months the failed rent of any of his clansmen
It seems a strict demand but this basis of "caring " and providing support for fellow mactavish clansmen was the job of a chief >

Simon mactavish was chief so he signed this demand stating he would care for his clan financially and morally.

The duke of argylle in accepted simon mactavishs pledge to "continue the role of mactavish chief "