Dna Testing

[Graeme]

Cathy, is this the DNA testing scheme from ancestry.com you were talking about a while back? If so do I just take the default test for males? It's been in the newspapers in the UK today and I'm getting excited now. But despite reading up on it all I still don't understand it fully. :( So if someone will point me in the right direction I will just do what I'm told.

http://dna.ancestry.com/welcome.aspx

[Graeme]

Here's a story about DNA from today's UK Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2753556.ece).

[cathy]

Yes, I had my brother take the test for our McTavish line. I would like to get a project going soon. Take the male test and go through Ancestry.com. Let me know when you get your results!!!

Cathy

[Graeme]

Cathy, do I take the 33 or 46 chromosome test?

[cathy]

the higher the number the better quality the results, so I would advise the 46 chromosome test.

Let me know when you get the results!!

Cathy

[Graeme]

I've one more question. Does the 46 chromosome test use the same markers as the 33 chromosome test, plus 13 others. And if so does that mean that I can check my 46 test against someone who has opted for the 33 test? Or would I have to take a 33 test myself as well? Does that make sense?

This is going to be my Christmas present - it's either a DNA test or a new digital camera and the test is a lot cheaper.

[Graeme]

Don't worry, folks - my pal Kath explained it to me. She says:

As I understand it, two people who take the 33 marker test can do a direct comparison, as can two people who do the 46 marker test. But the 46 marker test contains all the markers that are in the 33 marker test - so these can be compared too - you just ignore the 13 markers that don't appear in one person's test.

I'm sending off for the kit this morning.

[nessie]

Hiya cuzzies!
Sorry Ive been so busy lately --not had time to post,but thought Id let you know I spotted a MacTavish artefact in the museum at Inverness last month!
Well---more of a 250 year old wedding dress actually! Apparently it belonged to Isabella Mactavish (of Dores )who married a Malcolm Fraser in 1785 ------it's been preserved well and actually worn again recently by one of the female descendants at her own wedding!
Unfortunately its not the Mc Tavish tartan tho'-----it looks more like the Lovat Fraser colours---but it 's very impressive, framed behind a big glass display with Isabella Mactavish's name and story next to it!
Definitely worth a look when you get the chance to visit.
Once again the highlands had the most beautiful autumn weather and the scenery is awesome---I managed to track down another old farmstead connected to my line which is still standing and in use but developers are now encroaching on Inverness from all angles---- its such a shame.
How did you get on with your kit Graeme?
Im thinking of getting one for my brother's Christmas but he might get a shock and then theres the problem with his monkey DNA----' might affect his insurance !
Hope you and yours're are all well guys and hope you keep up the good work to expose the Rascals!
BTW; some great info available in the writings of Charles Fraser Mackintosh--- some of his memoirs and notes on Inverness are on-line now; try Toronto university website. sorry I cant remember exact address.
luv & best wishes N

[Graeme]

I got my test kit in this morning's post and I've read all the instructions. So tomorrow morning before breakfast I will sit down and do the sampling. No doubt it'll be very emotional conceiving my own ancestors! Needless to say I'll keep you all informed. And I'll need someone to decypher the results.

Don't worry about your brother having monkey DNA, Nessie. It may be for the best as vets are a lot cheaper than doctors so his insurance premiums will be that much lower.

For you poor souls who don't live in the UK and therefore don't know about him let me introduce you to Rhydian (http://www.xfactor.tv/talent/rhydianroberts).

[nessie]

Good luck Gegsie!---Im too afraid to ask exactly how you go about doing this DNA experiment but Im sure its all in the interests of shhhience as Shhhean Connery would say-----as well as McTavish history of course!
Unfortunately my pc doesnt seem to like/recognise the X factor so Im still blissfully unawares of Rhydian----tho Ive heard he's XXXXXXtremely awful!
Anyway----what were you doing watching that rubbish when Scotland were playing Italy? At one time you could argue theres no difference----but it sounds like we were actually cruelly robbed last night---(Italy 2; Scotland ;1) --oh me of little faith!
I have a very good excuse for "hitting the net" last night ----coz Im totally and deliberately Sky-less !-----but Id be very surprised if oor Graeme gave up footie for the X factor?'Hope you havent been brainwashed by the sassenachs Gegs?

[Graeme]

Gegsie? Voi scimmia piccola! Sono felice che l'Italia era la scommessa. Odio il calcio - penso che sia stupido e puerile. La gente scozzese preferisce gettare il caber. :D

[cathy]

Nice to hear from you again Nessie!!! Any chance you can get a picture of that dress?????? Sounds very interesting!!

things here are gearing up for the holiday's. Busy, busy, busy. You have your soccer and we have our football. My team the Green Bay Packers is doing nicely I might add!!!

Have a great week!
Cathy

[nessie]

Come desideri Graemegglio----La pace sia con te!
but please be careful with your caber.
Cathy hope your team tops the league with extra mozzarella -----and I'll try mailing you a pic of Isabella's dress tonight.
Im not as smart as Graeme but Ill try a bit of pasting!

[migovie]

hello nessie ...welcome back....hey...ive got a rattling in my grey matter re this isabella mactavish....i think she and her husband were actually the owners of the dores inn....ive got to check ...but it stirs a memory and i cant lay my hands on the papers to confirm it yet...im pretty sure tho....and her marriage to m fraser explains the fraser tartan on her bridal dress...as when she married him she adopted HIS family , name and blood..ill keep rumaging thru my (oh my god theres lots of papers )...im gonna have to retire and spend full time sifting thru this mactavish stuff.SCARY.....hows family ?

[nessie]

Hiya Migsie!
My wee baby monsters are doing just grand thanks! How's you? We had a fantastic week by the old pond -side in October but sadly didnt even manage one dram's worth at the Dores Inn ----too much exploring further afield this year, but Im sure the annual rock festival helps keep the Dores ticking over nicely!
I cant find my notes either on Isabella but I remember looking up her birth/marriage and finding she came from Dores---maybe the daughter of John???? McTavish and it would be so cool if her family once had the Inn !
I left my details with the museum in case her descendants want to get in touch. You never know ,they could have the missing links for us all!

[nessie]

How is the experiment progressing Graeme? I imagine the results will take an age to decipher but it 'll be fascinating to get a low down on all the wonderful ingredients making up a scotsman!
I read something recently reminding me that so many of us are descended from Asian and African people enslaved during the height of the British empire but sadly there's no paper trail to validate these ancestors as they were forced to take on english names-----only DNA can give a true profile of our roots!
Some say we're ALL descended from only 6 women -----but no mention of who's da daddy!!!!!

Ive given up trying to find Isa's notes and failed pathetically to paste the pics of Isabella's wedding dress --Ive e-mailed them to Cathy instead--- --but Im sure Cathy will share them in due course.
luv 'n best wishes Nessie

[Graeme]

I've sent my dna samples to the lab and I'm just waiting for them to to their bit. I'm hoping to get something before Christmas. I don't know what the results will be although I'm betting I'm more Saxon than Pict but you can never tell. I've had lots of chats with that John Ramsay bloke and we've got another couple of Ramsay cousins on board as well. So that's quite interesting - to us in any event. Are we the only two non-MacTavishes on here? Also I've traced my McMillan ancestors to the Isle of Barra and I'm sorting out that line for the genealogist in the Western Isles to finish off. He reckons their research centre has charted every family there and can get me back five or six generations from 1830. So that's not bad for about ?20.

Here's a good story for you. A lad I met on another forum worked on the new hydro system on Loch Mhor in the 1970s and knew my grandfather and was mates with my auntie's next door neighbour (who had kids with my cousin's ex wife) currently living in Stratherrick. Which was kind of interesting but then we discovered that I used to play with his first wife when we were tiny kids in the early 50s and she and me lived in the same tenement block just outside Aberdeen. It then turned out that his son is best pals with my nephew and niece. It then turned out that when he married his second wife they lived in the flat above my other Grannie in Aberdeen and this son was born there. It's a damned shame he's not as pretty as me.

[cathy]

What a small world it is!

Yes, I will post a page on the Isobel MacTavish dress very, very soon!
Cathy

[nessie]

Fit ur ye like Graeme? There should've been plenty of pretty genes to share around especially in Aberdeen,coz my MacTavish line swung by there for a while too!-----just a shame that monkey DNA tends to cramp my style a bit!

[Graeme]

The lab has now received my dna swabs and are processing it as I type. B)

[migovie]

well the dna trail should lead right back for everyone to only 1x couple......???
and their names are documented to be adam and eve...
and their address was in a garden called eden ...
and the ENTIRE worlds races and people stem from just those 2....???
but i think dna will prove that story impossible ...????
but it would mean that EVERONE was related..????
SCARY.....
and it would mean that adam and eves children shagged each other to begin the next generation....???
?/.....
well i think we can say the adam eve story and the garden and the snake is a good story but couldn never have been fact ????? or not..?????
if so...that would mean we are ALL related .....to hitler...and sadam ....and charles manson....and bush and blair ...OH NO ............THATS IT FOR ME ....END OF THAT THOUGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[Graeme]

and it would mean that adam and eves children shagged each other to begin the next generation[/b]

Weren't the children of Adam and Eve two boys called Cain and Abel?

[cathy]

Yes, I believe they were and that explains everything!!!

cathy

[nessie]

I know what u mean---but apparently Abel was more than able - and that's why he got whipped by Cain !
Then some hoi poloi angels came down and fraternised with the plebs ,resulting in some tribes of various tartans!
Can you see my halo from over there?

[cathy]

Your halo is blinding me Nessie! I can not see anything, wait, let me pull the blinds.................

[nessie]

-----but surely MacGabriel is your middle name Cathy is it not? Spread those wings and fly on over
in plenty time for a right good Hogmanay celebration! Everyone else included of course!
St Andrew's day (today) just wasnt the same without all the clan re-united.

[Graeme]

Ah well, I've got my DNA results back and it appears I'm not even British, never mind Scottish, but North Sea Baltic - according to Ken Nordvedt who appears to be more knowledgeable about all this than I am.

"The Anglo-Saxon sub-clade of R1b will have values of 23/11. If one's known ancestry is in the British Isles and one has R1b of this sub-clade, the odds are tilted against that being an "indigenous" R1b and toward being a NW European continental R1b brought to the British Isles by one of the historic invader/immigrant groups from Brussels, Holland, NW Germany, and Denmark. This tilt should be incorporated into all the other surname and related information you have about origins of your R1b. This represents Anglo/Saxon England populations after the Roman occupation ended in 410 AD but before the Norman/Viking populations in the early 1000's AD. This 23/11 Haplogroup is known as North Sea Baltic."


I always wondered why I prefered James Last to Andy Stewart.

[nessie]

AWWWWWW that's not fair----------Andy Stewart needs all the fans he can get----or is he of the past tense winged variety now?
Im sure you must have more Scots blood in you than you know --its just that the whisky kills it off a bit!
You won't believe this, but its true-----Ive just found out that an old friend of mine is now in the business of composing personalised music according to peoples DNA details-!!!!-----he's a very accomplished Scottish musician called Stuart Mitchell but he's now world famous and you can read all about him on this web-site; www.tjmitchell/stuart/dna.html
With his dad's help he even claims to have found the real DaVinci code ,a musical code ,in the ornate ceiling of Rosslyn chapel near Edinburgh and has produced aN AMAZING symphony from his disoveries--
Maybe theres still hope Graeme-----you might genuinely have a bit of James Last in you ---even if you are more inclined towards Baltic vodka!

[cathy]

You have really lost me!!! Is the R1b that I have the same as yours??? How do you tell??
Cathy











Ah well, I've got my DNA results back and it appears I'm not even British, never mind Scottish, but North Sea Baltic - according to Ken Nordvedt who appears to be more knowledgeable about all this than I am.

"The Anglo-Saxon sub-clade of R1b will have values of 23/11. If one's known ancestry is in the British Isles and one has R1b of this sub-clade, the odds are tilted against that being an "indigenous" R1b and toward being a NW European continental R1b brought to the British Isles by one of the historic invader/immigrant groups from Brussels, Holland, NW Germany, and Denmark. This tilt should be incorporated into all the other surname and related information you have about origins of your R1b. This represents Anglo/Saxon England populations after the Roman occupation ended in 410 AD but before the Norman/Viking populations in the early 1000's AD. This 23/11 Haplogroup is known as North Sea Baltic."


I always wondered why I prefered James Last to Andy Stewart.
[/b]

[Graeme]

Here's the page I found this on. I've got to go to bed now but I'll have a bash at explaining it tomorrow.
http://www.pbase.com/daveb/boyett_dna1

[Graeme]

Here's another page which may save me from having to explain anything. I don't really understand it anyway.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~g...s390_23_two.htm (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/haplo_r1b_dys390_23_two.htm)

Also you can see my results at ysearch http://www.ysearch.org/ user id M98XC.

There's no hope for me I'm afraid, Nessie. It's great not being Scottish anymore - I've been opening my wallet in the street and going into frivolous shops and that, although I've not been able to force myself to buy anything yet.

PS It's http://www.tjmitchell.com/stuart/dna.html

[cathy]

So if my DYS390 is 24, ah...........what does that mean?????????






Here's another page which may save me from having to explain anything. I don't really understand it anyway.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~g...s390_23_two.htm (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/haplo_r1b_dys390_23_two.htm)

Also you can see my results at ysearch http://www.ysearch.org/ user id M98XC.

There's no hope for me I'm afraid, Nessie. It's great not being Scottish anymore - I've been opening my wallet in the street and going into frivolous shops and that, although I've not been able to force myself to buy anything yet.

PS It's http://www.tjmitchell.com/stuart/dna.html
[/b]

[Graeme]

The first paragraph at http://www.pbase.com/daveb/boyett_dna1 says "Four sub-clades of R1b are derived from the repeats of DYS markers 390 and 391. The most common sub-clade is known as the Atlantic Modal Haplotype (AMH) with values of 24/11. The AMH is most common along the Atlantic coast from Spain to Scotland. "

I think this says that your ancestors are the indigenous R1bs in Scotland.

I'm asking questions all over the place but I'm not really getting any wiser on this matter. And it doesn't help that there are piles of numbers involved and I was 18 before I passed my O Level maths and even then it was the easiest exam in 35 years.

[migovie]

Arghhh but youve spoken the words of a TRUE scotsman that no dna trace can wisk away...you say you go to shops and open your wallet and have no will to spend ????
WELL i rest my case......you got scots blood in ya for sure .....

[Graeme]

Arghhh but youve spoken the words of a TRUE scotsman that no dna trace can wisk away...you say you go to shops and open your wallet and have no will to spend ????
WELL i rest my case......you got scots blood in ya for sure .....
[/b]


I believe there are environmental influences at work here. I believe I have been conditioned to be careful with my cash by a community of canny neighbours. I don't think it is set in my genes. I also believe that a few weeks in therapy will improve my chances of living a full and normal life in future. The vicious circle is that I need that therapy to be free of charge.