.croftmore

[john ramsay]

I am researching a Alexander Ramsay ,down on certif as a Sheep Manager,of Croftmore, my line comes from a Agnes or [Anne] Cameron on some Documents. John.

[cathy]

Welcome to the forum John! can you tell me a little more about your family?? Dates???

Sincerely,
Cathy

[john ramsay]

I am researching a Alexander Ramsay ,down on certif as a Sheep Manager,of Croftmore, my line comes from a Agnes or [Anne] Cameron on some Documents,son John ramsay born 1806, Bolskine,married a Marjory Frazer in Kilmorack,1830,job Shepherd, labourer ,both died in Kilmorack,Marjory Frazer in 1881,John Ramsay in 1889,son Hugh Ramsayborn 1831 Shepherd,policeman in Annadale Castle Skye,Married Jane McMillan in 1855 Kilmorack,i would be greatful for any information on said Alexander Ramsay in the late 1790s to the early 1800s. Thanks , yours John McMillan Ramsay.
[/b]




<div class='quotemain'>
I am researching a Alexander Ramsay ,down on certif as a Sheep Manager,of Croftmore, my line comes from a Agnes or [Anne] Cameron on some Documents,son John ramsay born 1806, Bolskine,married a Marjory Frazer in Kilmorack,1830,job Shepherd, labourer ,both died in Kilmorack,Marjory Frazer in 1881,John Ramsay in 1889,son Hugh Ramsayborn 1831 Shepherd,policeman in Annadale Castle Skye,Married Jane McMillan in 1855 Kilmorack,i would be greatful for any information on said Alexander Ramsay in the late 1790s to the early 1800s. Thanks , yours John McMillan Ramsay.Sorry thank you for the invite much obliged,all the best .
[/b]
[/b][/quote]

[Graeme]

Hey! That's my ancestor. His parents John Ramsay and Mary Tait came from the south of Scotland - maybe Dumfries, maybe Peebles, I don't know yet.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2270/ramsayvw0.jpg

[Graeme]

There's a guy on Curious Fox doing this family as well but although he's got my details he's not come back to me yet. Maybe I'll have to chase him.

His entry reads -

Ramsay family in late 18th and early 19th centuries (Mar 06) Easter Boleskine
Does anyone have any information about the Ramsay family living in the Boleskine region (possibly including across the Loch in Glen Urquhart) in the period from 1750 to 1830? Given names in this family include Euan, John, William, and Alexander, and I am particularly interested in the marriage and family of Euan Ramsay and Christy Brown, both born about 1795 and married 15th Jan 1824 at Boleskine. Thanks in anticipation, Jim

[john ramsay]

Hey! That's my ancestor. His parents John Ramsay and Mary Tait came from the south of Scotland - maybe Dumfries, maybe Peebles, I don't know yet.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2270/ramsayvw0.jpg
[/b]

[john ramsay]

Hey! That's my ancestor. His parents John Ramsay and Mary Tait came from the south of Scotland - maybe Dumfries, maybe Peebles, I don't know yet.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2270/ramsayvw0.jpg
[/b]
Hello Graeme,thats great!was Alexander married more than once? i have been researching him for months ,and have never been sure if i got the right Alexander! I have a lot of the ramsays details from son John Ramsay born 1806. to present day.was going to hire a researcher for Alexander,thanks very much for the information on Alexander. Yours John McMillan Ramsay.

[Graeme]

I've written more about this here.
http://www.garthbeg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26
And this afternoon I'm off to the library to look up ancestry.com (for free) to see what more I can find on these Ramsays. I was going to look up other stuff but you've put me off track now. :)

[john ramsay]

I've written more about this here.
http://www.garthbeg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26
And this afternoon I'm off to the library to look up ancestry.com (for free) to see what more I can find on these Ramsays. I was going to look up other stuff but you've put me off track now. :)
[/b]




<div class='quotemain'>
I've written more about this here.
http://www.garthbeg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26
And this afternoon I'm off to the library to look up ancestry.com (for free) to see what more I can find on these Ramsays. I was going to look up other stuff but you've put me off track now. :)
[/b]
[/b][/quote]Thanks Graeme, how do you manage ancestry. com for free at the libary? I have found out since i started researching my line, the only free site is Family search org.[run by the mormons plus there family research is free in there family room, that is how i got of details on my line,then Scotlands people,backed it up.yours John.

[Graeme]

John and myself have had a few chats now and he's a braw lad to have as a cousin. I'll bet he's not as bonnie as me though. ;)

Does anyone know when Gaelic stopped being the main language in Stratherrick? I can't remember, when I was a kid in the 50s, any of the old people I knew then speaking any more than a few words of it. But John has references to some of the Ramsays being Gaelic speakers.

There are some photos of Ramsays on South Loch Ness Heritage (http://www.southlochnessheritage.co.uk/gallery/gallery.php?id_alb=10) including one of Billy Ramsay who used to snog my mother when they were young.

[john ramsay]

John and myself have had a few chats now and he's a braw lad to have as a cousin. I'll bet he's not as bonnie as me though. ;)

Does anyone know when Gaelic stopped being the main language in Stratherrick? I can't remember, when I was a kid in the 50s, any of the old people I knew then speaking any more than a few words of it. But John has references to some of the Ramsays being Gaelic speakers.

There are some photos of Ramsays on South Loch Ness Heritage (http://www.southlochnessheritage.co.uk/gallery/gallery.php?id_alb=10) including one of Billy Ramsay who used to snog my mother when they were young.
[/b] Thanks for all your help Graeme, John [Iain] McMillan Ramsay it has restored my faith in our Distant Relations! Cousin.

[migovie]

hi guys ...cant give any precise dates for the demise of gaelic .....except i understand the speaking of the native tongue of gaelic was banned by the english after culloden ......so we can say from that date it began to fail BUT my ancestor alexander mactavish sltr who died 1855 is described in his death notice as being a "fluent speaker" in gaelic ......so id say its widespread use ceased post culloden yet it was still used in stratherrick proudly by some.
i think also that after culloden there was a huge push in university education..to the point scotland actually lead the world and indeed had more sltrs etc per capita than anywhere circa 1800.. My suggestion is this push for education was actually a cleverly calculated method by the crown to undermine the scots family and tradition.
I can see a family that had spent generations on a family farm failing due to the eldest son and in fact all sons now returning home as sltrs etc after being sent to university. This same eduation would have also lead to the gaelic language dwindling also as the educated sons would have been deterred from using it .
This also may have lead to strain within the family esp if the father only spoke gaelic and now the highly educated sons had little knowledge of it . This would see the family unit begin to fail , along with the fact a dying father was now left with no sons willing to take over the land.
Evidence of this comes from my ancestors census of 1835. ASt this time he was succesfull sltr inverness but also farming the migovie farm held by his family for generation (he was a "native of stratherrick " in his obituary).
When completing the census he stated he was a "sltr" then crossed it out and proudly wrote in larger words "FARMER"..So maybe he was in the midst of the turmoil.
That all i can offer at this stage ? hope it helps .

[john ramsay]

Thanks very much for your help, have you any idea when sheep first came into Inverness? or any ideas of books that can put me on the right track! all the best , yours John.
hi guys ...cant give any precise dates for the demise of gaelic .....except i understand the speaking of the native tongue of gaelic was banned by the english after culloden ......so we can say from that date it began to fail BUT my ancestor alexander mactavish sltr who died 1855 is described in his death notice as being a "fluent speaker" in gaelic ......so id say its widespread use ceased post culloden yet it was still used in stratherrick proudly by some.
i think also that after culloden there was a huge push in university education..to the point scotland actually lead the world and indeed had more sltrs etc per capita than anywhere circa 1800.. My suggestion is this push for education was actually a cleverly calculated method by the crown to undermine the scots family and tradition.
I can see a family that had spent generations on a family farm failing due to the eldest son and in fact all sons now returning home as sltrs etc after being sent to university. This same eduation would have also lead to the gaelic language dwindling also as the educated sons would have been deterred from using it .
This also may have lead to strain within the family esp if the father only spoke gaelic and now the highly educated sons had little knowledge of it . This would see the family unit begin to fail , along with the fact a dying father was now left with no sons willing to take over the land.
Evidence of this comes from my ancestors census of 1835. ASt this time he was succesfull sltr inverness but also farming the migovie farm held by his family for generation (he was a "native of stratherrick " in his obituary).
When completing the census he stated he was a "sltr" then crossed it out and proudly wrote in larger words "FARMER"..So maybe he was in the midst of the turmoil.
That all i can offer at this stage ? hope it helps .
[/b]

[cathy]

I am so glad, that you were all able to get together!!!! I get so excited when people can make these sorts of connections. My husband had hip replacement surgery on October 17th, so I am just getting caught up on all this once again!!

CONGRATULATIONS!

Cathy

[Graeme]

Aye. It is quite exciting and John's a nice lad as well.

Thanks for the info on the Gaelic, Migovie. I read this on wikpedia regarding education and Gaelic.

"The Scottish wing, the SSPCK, was formed by royal charter in 1709 as a separate organisation with the purpose of founding schools "where religion and virtue might be taught to young and old" in the Scottish Highlands and other "uncivilised" areas of the country, thus countering the threat of Roman Catholic missionaries achieving "a serious landslide to Rome" and of growing Highland Jacobitism. Their schools were a valuable addition to the Church of Scotland programme of education in Scotland which was already working with support from a tax on landowners to provide a school in every parish. The SSPCK had 5 schools by 1711, 25 by 1715, 176 by 1758 and 189 by 1808, by then with 13,000 pupils attending. At first the SSPCK avoided using the Gaelic language with the result that pupils ended up learning by rote without understanding what they were reading. In 1741 the SSPCK introduced a Gaelic-English vocabulary, then in 1766 brought in a New Testament with facing pages of Gaelic and English texts for both languages to be read alongside one another, with more success. In the early 19th century their activity declined and the work was taken over by the Gaelic Societies of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Inverness."

[cathy]

very interesting. There is a good addition to the Lawson book "A Country called Stratherrick", on the Boleskine School. As I recall the addition of this school was during the same time period!

Thanks again!

Cathy

[john ramsay]

very interesting. There is a good addition to the Lawson book "A Country called Stratherrick", on the Boleskine School. As I recall the addition of this school was during the same time period!

Thanks again!

Cathy
[/b]
Thanks very much Cathy , myself and Graeme have been getting on well his info on Inverness, plus our family line, have been first class, glad i came across the Garthbeg Family Forums, and thanks to everyone for setting it up, and everyone for there input, yours , John

[migovie]

hey guys would either of you be able to throw me in the right direction here....
in early 1800s there was some sort of inverness school called "the blue coat school" or similar ...my gt grandfather was said to be a graduate of that school before going to kings college aberdeen and graduating as sltr and accountant .
any ideas what this blue coat school was?
there was a blue school cap in our family some time back believed to be his and perhaps this was from that blue coat school 1830s.?
it was stated proudly in his death notice 1912 that he had been to that inverness school ?
any ideas.? .....it may have been religous studies as i have 2 bibles gifted to him and signed by his sisters in 1832 and both appear to be a form "priest" instruction bibles on how to perform all family and religous events like birth deaths and marriages etc and the appropriate prayers to be said at each event ?
but he was never a priest THATS for sure ....
??????????????????????????????????????

[Graeme]

Well, I know about Bluecoat Schools but I never knew there was one in Inverness. Here's (http://www.archivist.f2s.com/bsu/Blcoat.htm) a link to a description of them in general. But I'm afraid I've no idea about the Inverness one.

[migovie]

ill dble check the exact wording but pretty sure his obituary 1912 said he was a graduate of the inverness school of blue coats then went to kings college aberdeen and studied law and accounting which of course he would have to do seeing his dad was the leading sltr and magistrate for inverness at the time (1850)...poor lad had no say in his life .

[Graeme]

Here's what it says about schools in the New Statistical Account for Inverness.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3614/31699875mk3.gif

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/521/26583207mq1.gif

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5491/48503792hm5.gif

[john ramsay]

Here's what it says about schools in the New Statistical Account for Inverness.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3614/31699875mk3.gif

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/521/26583207mq1.gif

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5491/48503792hm5.gif
[/b]
Well done Graeme that was of great interest to me! John.[i]

[migovie]

great stuff , alexr james was born 1842 > His father was alexr mactavish who became inverness leading sltr and inverness magistrate in 1832. he was also a conservative party follower of great esteem as he was given a lsiver plaque by inverness leading business around the same date thanking him for for work and eforts for the district.
His son alexr james was 12 ys old when alexr sltr died.Around this age or shortly before alexr james seems to have gone to some religious training school then off to kings college aberdeen . The dates on the family bibles indiacte that he left for the religous training which appears to be a strict conduct of words, poems and songs to be rendered at special occasions such as funerals. weddings , marriages, and quotes from the bible as to what chapters from the bible could be used at these events. the date indicates that it was this school that was titled the "blue coats" as he went direct to kings college and studied law then left inverness in 1864 aged 22ys.
From 1830 until his death in 1855 his father alexr mactavish was magistrate of inverness and alexr james o brother william tavish mactavish also graduated as a sltr and moved to tain and set up business there. His son alexr also became a sltr and i would like to find any family attached to that man.?
Alexr sltrs will leaves around $6000 pounds to his boys so he wasnt in any way sending his children to a school for the poor or needy .
Alexr sltrs business partners in his inverness law firm were 2 boys from the garthbeg family his "cousins" and ive yet to est their exact identity > one apperas to be duncan mactavish who witnesses his will and another perhaps john mactavish who acording lawson died from cancer . this john visited migovie with his relation "sandy /alexr mactavish sltr" on way to london for surgery and they heard the migovie "banshee"...great story

[Graeme]

Does anyone have copies of the Land Tax or Valuation Rolls for Stratherrick they'd be willing to look up for me please?

[migovie]

TAX.....OUCH ...TAX.....does anyone have any clues to the reasons behind the "window tax" introduced and evident in 1830s census when the scots had to declare how many windows their home had and they were charged tax on the number of windows.?

[Graeme]

Scottish Taxes (http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/taxation.asp)

As for the Windows Tax, I always assumed that it was to pay for some war or something. But a while ago I discovered that it was originally introduced because people kept clipping and scraping bits of silver off the coinage in England and the Window Tax was to compensate for this. I believe there still is a window and door tax in France.

And tonight in London, former Boleskine House resident, Jimmy Page will be performing with his band Led Zeppelin - their first performance in 19 years. I don't have tickets.

[Graeme]

Hi Folks
There's been a major development in my family history research. It turns out that Simon Cameron, who was married to Jane Ramsay, was married before to a girl called Christian McIntyre. And as I come from this first marriage there is no Ramsay blood in me whatsoever which is a bit of a shame because I've done a lot of work on the Ramsays over the years.

It does mean I don't have to endure endless phone calls from John Ramsay who still is a Ramsay, although he is being a bit slow in taking the hint. :rolleyes:

Simon Cameron seems to have met Christian McIntyre when he was stationed in Paisley with the 79th Regiment of Foot and they married in Foyers in 1819. Christian was born in 1800 in Paisley and she died c 1830 and Jane Ramsay moved in soon afterwards, presumably initially to look after the children. They married in 1837 well after they'd started their own family.

John has just about finished recording all the descendents of Alexander Ramsay, and there are many, and he's now started on the Camerons with the intention of finding all descendents of James Cameron and Margaret MacGillivray both born c 1750. It didn't take him long to find my favourite relative Victor Diamond Jubilee Cameron in Aberdeen. There's a prize for the first person who can guess his year of birth.

A fair few of the Ramsays became policemen and John Ramsay of Shanghai seems to have been the most succesful of them. When he died he left all his money to a niece called Annie Mackenzie but we had an awful job working out just how she was his niece. All her certificates pointed to there being no Ramsay connection and then I found the family in the census for Dingwall. The head of the household was a railway guard who travelled a lot and the lodger was a blacksmith called William Ramsay who scarpered to New Zealand shortly after Annie was born. But that's Ramsays for you.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5404/2jc7dp4.jpg


Lastly, this DNA thing has been very disappointing. It took a long time to get matches through and when they did come the surname was Innes and my surname is Kemp. So not only am I not a Ramsay but I'm not even a flipping Kemp.:eek:

[cathy]

Nice to hear from you again, Graeme! You know the DNA thing has just confused the heck out of me, I just can not understand it. Obviously I am not a scientist! The above post is fascinating. I am going to print it out and see what I can find on it! You Brit's were just all over the world back then. Did you know there was a McTavish and company in Shanghai about the same time period? there are a lot of photos from this company that turn up on ebay, and I keep trying to figure out how they work into things too!

Again, nice to hear from you!

Cathy