Sherrif Dugald Mactavish

[migovie]

just to clarify some points re sherrif dugald (lachlans son)...
its been stated that sherif neglected to apply for lachlans titles as he was very busy as a successful lawyer.

WRONG...

sherrif dugald moved to cambletown and worked as a sherrif substitite part time ONLY...
his legal career was far from succesful....(what could be termed a failure in fact)

sherrif dugald was not only failing in business but his failing health meant that he was confined to spending the last 8 years of his life cast in his lounge chair by the fire.....and during this time his debt mounted....

to the point he borrowed funds from his father in law....( and all this arranged by his devoted and supporting wife)

not only did sherif dugald borrow heavily to keep alive but he made no payment on these loans for 15 years ...to the point he wrote to his father in law apologising but asking for forgiveness and offering a gentlemans guarantee that he would repay...whic he didnt ...then his son william finally settled the debt after sherrifs death but fights over the amount saying no interest should be charged as he feels the money was a gift...

matters had become so entangled that in fact sherrif dugald and his wife actually seperated and son william writes to say he prays the foolishness will stop and he wants no one to speak of his parents affairs.

after sherrif dugalds death son william writes and says he wishes to sell kilchrist as soon as possible as it is in such a sad state of repair he deems it worthless now.

NOW WHY....DOES OUR CLAN SAY SHERRIF DUGALD WAS SO SUCCESFUL LAYWER HE HADNT TIME TO APPLY FOR REGISTRATION OF HIS FATHERS ARMS .....?

for gods sake its about time the crap was lifted from our clans history and just tell the story as it really happened......

yes there was good...yes there was bad....JUST CUT THE CRAP AND TELL THE STORY .....THATS MY CHALLENGE TO PATRICK THOMPSON.........CEASE the story telling and TELL THE TRUTH......

[cathy]

Good Challenge Migovie, but they do not have the guts to face the truth.
Cathy











just to clarify some points re sherrif dugald (lachlans son)...
its been stated that sherif neglected to apply for lachlans titles as he was very busy as a successful lawyer.

WRONG...

sherrif dugald moved to cambletown and worked as a sherrif substitite part time ONLY...
his legal career was far from succesful....(what could be termed a failure in fact)

sherrif dugald was not only failing in business but his failing health meant that he was confined to spending the last 8 years of his life cast in his lounge chair by the fire.....and during this time his debt mounted....

to the point he borrowed funds from his father in law....( and all this arranged by his devoted and supporting wife)

not only did sherif dugald borrow heavily to keep alive but he made no payment on these loans for 15 years ...to the point he wrote to his father in law apologising but asking for forgiveness and offering a gentlemans guarantee that he would repay...whic he didnt ...then his son william finally settled the debt after sherrifs death but fights over the amount saying no interest should be charged as he feels the money was a gift...

matters had become so entangled that in fact sherrif dugald and his wife actually seperated and son william writes to say he prays the foolishness will stop and he wants no one to speak of his parents affairs.

after sherrif dugalds death son william writes and says he wishes to sell kilchrist as soon as possible as it is in such a sad state of repair he deems it worthless now.

NOW WHY....DOES OUR CLAN SAY SHERRIF DUGALD WAS SO SUCCESFUL LAYWER HE HADNT TIME TO APPLY FOR REGISTRATION OF HIS FATHERS ARMS .....?

for gods sake its about time the crap was lifted from our clans history and just tell the story as it really happened......

yes there was good...yes there was bad....JUST CUT THE CRAP AND TELL THE STORY .....THATS MY CHALLENGE TO PATRICK THOMPSON.........CEASE the story telling and TELL THE TRUTH......
[/b]

[migovie]

its such a shame when all these facts and letters have been in our cheifs hands . He reads the facts, then writes down an entirely different story on his clan site and calls that the mactavish history and the story of our clan. The facts are changed and the story made up to make things "look good".
In reality , it should be simply stated that sherif dugald tried hard, but failing health and increasing debt , meant he spent the last 15 years of his life in poverty, and nealry exhausted all family ties to friendship and loans.
It should be stated that his son william , has been recorded as a very "sensitive young man prone to depression" It should be stated that young william was a good son, and william worked tirelessly in the fur trade . William was due a large sum of funds for his years work. Nealry this entire amount was used by william to clear his fathers debts. William , then writes and offeres assurance he will settle the debt for his fathers funeral expenses as soon as possible.
Poor sherrif dugald couldnt even afford to bury himself.
In 1828 simon mactavish son simon jnr is recorded as contacting sherrif dugald and offering the dunardry titles back. (as simon jnr was near death and without heirs)
Sherrif dugald is recorded as refusing the dunardry titles.
In the last years of sherrif dugalds life he makes enquiry as to what nice dress his son william may wear as william is returning to canada to again work in the fur trade. Neither sherrif dugald nor his son william have any idea what the mactavish tartan is , Neither man knows what the mactavish family crest looks like , and young william says he could get one made up in london quite cheaply IF he had paperwork that proved the families lineage...
This VERY letter proves that the family of sherrif dugald mactavish have not ONE part of the mactavish chiefly gear in their possession. Sherrif dugald is so perplexed re the mactavish tartan that all he states he can recall is his grandmother dressing in the campbell tartan.
What is also proven is that sherrif dugald was NOT too busy as a lawyer at all in the last 15 years of his life.Sherrif dugald in fact writes 1/2 dozen letters to other mactavish asking for help in information about mactavish tartan , dress and crests.T
This proves that he definately had the time to write to lyons to ask the same , but he never did. WHY.?
Because he knew that early in his legal training sherrif dugald and his boss ( james ferrier lawyer) actually wrote to simon mactavish and confirmed simon mactavish and sons were able to title themselves with the dunardry titles and heraldic arms of dunardry.
THIS is the reason sherrif dugald had no recall of anything of mactavish chiefly line .

[cathy]

Migovie, if I recall, don't you have pictures of the COA of Dunardry??? Weren't they in the possession of your family?

Cathy

[migovie]

yes there are numerous items held by the garthbeg mactavish ancestors the most important being the gifting of a large oak box containing ancient swords and daggers with the mactavish crest in gold.These were extremely heavy and large according to family records. Museum records are being checked as we speak and the search will locate this box and its contents i am sure.
Interesting to note that noone has yet affered any explanation for the complete disppearance of the dunardry AND gartbeg arms .
Both sets have not been seen since early 1800s. The most unexplained event is the fact that BOTH dunardry and garthbeg arms went missing around the same date. The arms as issued to both lachlan and simon were not simple paperwork , they also included an artists portrait impression of the crest and arms . This was a handsome painting .
History tells us that both dunardry and garthbeg arms have not been seen from the same date , and this suggests they may have both been in possesion of 1x person or family. The coincidence of both branches of mactavish misplacing arms and papers etc at same time is just too far fetched.
Of course we know hisotry tells us the last personb and family to hold the garthbeg and dunardry arms was simon mactavish of garthbeg who died 1804. Simons will details his dunardry arms FACT....so the trail stops with simon mactavish and sons FACT....
Sherrif dugald mactavish grave inscription does NOT describe him as chief nor as titled "of dunardry"...his son william mactavish is NOT described as "of dunardry"Neither father nor son are buried with that title nor have it mentioned in their wills. FACT.

[migovie]

simon mactavish will of 1804 details his lands AND arms of dunardry. FACT

simons son william is described at death as "william mactavish of dunardry" 1818. FACT

simons last heir and son simon jnr is described as "simon mactavish of dunardry" FACT

lachlan mactavish lawyer (james ferrier) writes a letter CONFIRMING simon mactavish and sons were titled with "the arms and heraldic bearings of dunardry".. FACT

lachlans son and heir sherrif dugald was working under apprenticeship to james ferrier at the time of this letter ...FACT

the duke of argylle at this same date confirms simon mactavish to be "known as armiger of dunardry" ...FACT

at NO time thru this time frame of 1804 to 1828 (date of death of simons last son and heir) ...do we see ANY mention, remark, letter, or papers that title either sherrif dugald nor sons as "of dunardry" NOR chief...FACT

at NO date from 1804 onwards until 1970s do we see ANY mactavish of dunardry title themselves as chief
FACT..........

at NO time from 1804 till 1970s do we see ANY dunardry mactavish even act as a chief nor assume ANY form of cheifly duites nor responsibilty ...FACT.....

HISTORY PROVES THAT THE VERY LAST MAN TO BE TITLED "OF DUNARDRY WAS SIMON MACTAVISH AND FAMILY ....SIMON DID NOT APPROACH LYONS TO HAVE THIS ACTION CONFIRMED....BUT DOCS FROM LACHLANS LAWYER (FAMILY LAWYER) AND LETTERS FROM LACHLANS SONS BOSS (THE SAME LAWYER) PROVE THEY CONFIRMED SIMON MACTAVISH AND SONS WERE ACCEPTED AND ABLE TO TITLE THEMSLEVES "OF DUNARDRY" AND LETTERS CONFIRM THAT THE FAMILY OF SIMON MACTAVISH ARE CONFIRMED TO HOLD THE "HERLADIC TITLES AND ARMS OF DUNARDRY".....

FACT....FACT....AND FACT

[nessie]

Good to hear youre still on the case Migsie mate!
Y' know what ? I reckon Harry Potter 's got a better chance of spinning a credible chiefly spell with bells on
than the current Sticky imposter! Why ? Perhaps its just the way his Mctavish tartan pyjamas caught my eye in "Order of the Phoenix"-----
HAS ANYONE ELSE SPOTTED THEM YET ---OR IS IT JUST MY TARTAN COLOURED GLASSES?

[cathy]

You mean in the movie, they used the MacTavish tartan for pajamas????? Now I do not follow the Harry Potter stuff very closely, what movie was the Order of the Phoenix??

And when in the movie did they show the pajamas???


Cathy

[nessie]

Order of the Phoenix is the latest HP film out ( story no.5 ) and Ive only seen it once---- in a sobre--- but totally knackered "semi- compost -mentalist" state ----
I did jump to life when I spotted what looked very much like the MACT tartan on Harry's jammies-----and I'd guess its the bit when Harry has a worrying prophetic dream in the middle of the night----he goes to Dumbledore who sends him for some thought control lessons with Snape.
Hope you have some fun trying to catch them on a still-----just hope you're merciful if Im wrong!
Yet another bit of useless info------did you know that real sporran owners have to pay a license now to wear one in public places?!! Just as well its not private places too-----The mind boggles!

[nessie]

The new regs are really aimed at protecting the otter , whose fur is most often used to make sporrans--
Otters are such gorgeous animals----anyone seeing see them play so happily in the wild would surely think twice about making sporrans out of them!
To get back to the case in question---I know for a fact that the chiefship was more or less up for grabs in the 19 70's when people were actually invited to state their claim with all types of characters coming out the woodwork and even back then there was a very tepid response to the newly appointed "chief"

[migovie]

good to see your still up and firing too nessie....ill have a peek re the tartan pjs BUT hope i dont get caught trying to freeze frame some little cretins pajama antics.....i could see the headlines now....

HEY did you know weve got an intrepid investigator at moment at kilmartin.
Kilmartin has been know for generations as "the burial place for the mactavish clan of dunardry "and the cemetery is adorned with mactavish graves from the mactavish clan .
Whats being looked into is the strange quote on sherrifs dugalds grave.
It DOES NOT title the sherrif as chief nor "of dunardry" ...

what it does say is simply "the burial place of the mactavish of dunardry" which is a simple statement of that fact and described perfectly what the locals already kniow about kilmartin...YES it is the mactavish cemetery ...to the point dozens of ex dunardry clansmen were buried there after dying from cholera up in glasgow early 1800s..

What has been discovered are documents that around 1900s that actually detailed that same inscription but state that it wasnt actually on sherrif dugalds grave at all at that date .
It actually was sitting a short way off and on the ground and was a place name for that part of the cemetery

> What appears to have happened is some time around 1900 someone simply fitted that 2nd part of the headstone to sherrif dugalds grave . If you look at his headstone youll note that it is in 2 parts...the top part is a new addition
at neither of sherrif dugalds burials was he titled with the chiefly title nor as "of dunardry"
Will let you all know results of enquiry at kilmartin as to sherrifs correct headstone at time of burial .

IF sherrif dugalds headstone was to confirm he was actually titled it would read legally and correctly as

'' SHERRIF DUGALD MACTAVISH OF DUNARDRY"......

it DOESNT it reads simply "the burial place of the mactavish of dunardry "...which is NOT a chiefly title nor reference AT ALL

catch you all soon....

[cathy]

Thanks for the update Migovie! And keep us all posted on the investigation!

Cathy

[migovie]

will do ...
ive also investigated extensively the question of sherrif dugald acting as a chief, being a chief or being treated as a chief by fellow mactavish clansman ...HE NEVER WAS....
the most important letter that supports this fact is sherrifs dugald letter re the impending sale of dunardry.
sherrif dugald writes a venoumous letter saying he wants to have right to repurchase dunardry from simon mactavish heirs..(altho i also have evidence sherrif had no money at this stage BUT )
sherrif says that simon mactavish (snr) paid him in FULL for dunardry and sherrif thinks he should be able to repurchase now at that same price.
the point being that IF sherrif dugald had actually been chief he would have DEF played that card in this letter and would have WITHOUT doubt said " as your chief i demand you sell dunardry back to me "
HE DIDNT...he never mentioned ANY thought that he had power or control over other mactavish clanmsan
Can anyone show me a letter to sherrif dugald by any mactavish that treats sherrif as a chief,,,that asks sherrif for guidance as a chief would be asked ? ..or that asks sherrif for assistance or advice as a mactavish chief would have been...NO NO and NO...
sherrif dugald was NEVER treated as a chief NOR did he EVER act as a chief.....EVER.....
he had NO respect from mactavish clansman as a chief nor control over mactavish clansman as a chief nor nor did he act as a chief .....he offered no clan advice nor control...nor position....
whereas the letters we have re simon mactavish and sons ...WELL WELL WELL.....
rest in peace